DAVID JEREMIAH-THE CHURCH AND THE TRIBULATION

"There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ."

The tribulation period isn't a time of condemnation for the church; it is a time of testing.

"The Holy Spirit is the great force that restrains evil."

I agree with this, but I think in this case Paul is referring to the Roman emperor. The Roman emperor was taken out of the way and that allowed the Catholic church, which is the whore of Revelation, to take over.

Also, to interpret "he who letteth" to be the Holy Spirit implies that man is going to take God out of the way.

David Jeremiah also performs some Biblical slight of hand. 2 Thessalonians doesn't say "the tribulation period", it says "the day of Christ." The believers in Thessalonica thought that Jesus had already come back the second time and they had missed out.

"Revelation 4 4 is a picture of the church in Heaven during the tribulation."

No, it isn't. This passage pictures Heaven as it is now. The church gets clothed with its fine linen in Revelation 19, after the tribulation. Therefore, this passage can't be referring to the raptured church. Of course, this also means the church will go through the tribulation.

"The church of Philadelphia is the true church today."

First of all, the seven churches are not seven different periods of the church down through the ages. Rather, they represent seven different types of Christians.

Second, if the seven churches are representative of different church ages, the self-centred, apostate, weak-kneed church of today is not the church of Philadelphia.

Revelation 3 10 could signify that the Christians in the end times who are Philadelphia church Christians will not have to experience the twenty-one judgments that make up the tribulation period. This could happen in two ways.

First, the Philadelphia Christians could all die before the tribulation period starts. The Lord has taken out a number of His saints recently. Whether this theory is true of the whole or not, no doubt there will be individual saints who will be spared the horrors of the tribulation through going on to be with their Lord beforehand.

The second way Philadelphia Christians could be kept from the hour of the judgments is through temporary escape into other demensions, such as Jesus was when the people of Nazareth wanted to stone Him for saying He was the Messiah.

At any rate, I think it is a stretch to say that "I will keep you from the hour of testing" means Christians will be raptured from the earth before the tribulation period begins.

"The day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night means the pre-tribulation rapture."

No, the verse about the Lord coming as a thief in the night refers to Christians who are asleep to what's going on being caught unawares. There will be signs that our Lord is about to return, but many people will not be able to notice them.

The reason the church goes through the tribulation is not because it is appointed unto wrath, but so that Christians can have their faith tested. The thing I find particularly incidious about the pre-tribulation rapture doctrine is the implication that the spoiled, over-indulged, lukewarm, whimpy North American (and really world) church will be allowed to continue to sit in their living rooms gratifying the self and then be taken from the earth before things get really bad.

"... so you have to add back in that the church is going to go through the tribulation."

Who is adding things in, David Jeremiah? The pre-tribulation rapture doctrine was not even taught in the church for 1800 years. If it were a true and vital doctrine, don't you think the early church fathers or the reformers would have realized and taught it?

"Nowhere in the epistles is there any advice given about how to escape the tribulation so that means the church will be raptured and not have to go through it."

Again, Biblical slight of hand. The epistles don't mention anything about escaping the tribulation but Jesus tells his disciples to pray that they are counted worthy to escape the tribulation and for the strength to withstand it.

"Rahab was a Godly woman even though she lied."

Actually, Rahab is an example of the times the Bible condones lying. There are times it is OK to lie; even Jesus lied.

"Christians live with the expectation that Jesus Christ is coming back tonight. ... It is a doctrine called the imminent return of Christ."

The imminent return of Christ is a lie. Paul instructed the Thessalonians and John wrote the Book of Revelation so that believers would be aware of and watch out for the signs that told of Christ's approaching return.

"There are no post-tribulation prophecy conferences."

What the heck does that have to do with anything?

The strong dilusion Paul warns us of is the pre-tribulation rapture.

"There will be people who will be saved in the tribulation ..."

This teaching stems from the fact that teachers like David Jeremiah can't ignore the verses in Revelation about, for example, the giant locusts not harming those who have the seal of God on their forehead. Any person with common sense reading a verse such as this would infer that God's people will be on the earth during the tribulation but will not be harmed by the judgments God has planned for the world. However, such verses get in the way of David Jeremiah's feel-good "don't worry, nothing bad's ever gonna happen to you" doctrine so he then has to introduce the preposterous notion that somehow unbelievers appointed for wrath will be saved during this period of judgment.

Let's think about this. How are people convicted of their sins so that they are prompted to get saved? Answer: By the Holy Spirit. Where is the Holy Spirit? Answer: Within Christians. Therefore, if the Christians are gone from this planet, then the Holy Spirit is gone as well. How then will those of the world going through the tribulation be saved?

"No one who has heard the Gospel now will be saved during the tribulation."

The Bible says that the Gospel of the kingdom of Heaven will be preached throughout the whole world and then the end will come. Are you saying, then, David Jeremiah, that the church will be taken out of the world before it has completely fulfilled it's mission? What kind of ridiculousness is that?!